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9/11 trials set for New York

Discussion in 'Rants & Raves' started by Anonymous, Nov 13, 2009.

  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous

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    I can see this being a fair and open process, cant you? :roll:

    Its going to be great hearing how the mighty US gained the evidence and how they tie it into the 9/11 attacks.

    I'm currently watching the white house announcement and death penalties are already being talked as an option.
    Standby for the ‘national security’ excuse being banded about like wildfire…

    Roll up. Roll up for the main event...
     
  2. Edski675

    Edski675 Administrator Staff Member

    Time to disclose my woolly treehugging liberal credentials. I oppose the death penalty. Never, not under any circumstances. It sucks. If I were on a jury trying someone where death would be the outcome, I would refuse to convict. No. Never.
     
  3. henrymc

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    Its taken them long enough to torture i mean interview those guys to get a confession out of them :!:
     

  4. +1
     
  5. Anonymous

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    Time to split this into a death penalty / 9/11 threads :D

    Me, I would have no problems sentencing someone to death as some folks simply deserve it.

    On the other hand, 9/11 was an inside job from an engineering perspective as planes don’t vaporise (Pentagon) and over engineered buildings don’t crumple like a deck of cards :eek:
     
  6. D41

    D41

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    No offense, mate - but your insinuations are absolute total bullsh*t!!

    Khalid Sheikh Mohammed has repeatedly claimed to have been the guy who planned the events of 9/11, which claimed the lives of nearly three thousand people...he has also asked for the death penalty in order to 'achieve martyrdom'.

    - Of course the death penalty is being discussed as an option.....there is only TWO options via sentencing for a crime like this in the US - Life without the possibility of parole - or the death sentence!!! - Do you seriously believe that a person that has committed a crime such as this should be allowed to live??? - so that I, as a taxpayer, get to pay for the cost of his incarceration? - So that the families of the people he murdered get to pay for it also??? - So that any crime, no matter how heinous - should simply be treated as a "mistake" & that all criminals can be 'cured'??

    Did you watch the events of 9/11, Overseas? - Did you watch planes full of innocent people being flown into the WTC? - Did you watch people jump to their certain death rather than be burned alive?? - Do you even realize that some of those poor souls landed upon the firefighters who were rushing in to rescue them, killing them instantly.
    ...In point of fact, have you any idea at all what something like that is like.....it is demoralizing to a nation, a people, & a person....that the United States has taken it's time to present it's case is to the credit of our justice system - not the other way round.
     
  7. Anonymous

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    None taken mate!

    You have obviously been in America too long as you sound and spell like an America but I will have a pop at your post, not you.

    Of course I have watched the planes crash into the towers, the nice neat hole punched into the pentagon and of course the shallow hole in the middle of nowhere where a plane allegedly vaporised on impact. (Where’s the TV footage from the pentagon as this is one of the most CCTV saturated buildings in the US but all the film was confiscated immediately after the missile strike, I mean plane strike?)

    I have also seen a TV program that found many (7 I recall) of the named hijackers still alive and kicking – which is quite amazing as they were on board the planes according to the US authorities.

    When a nation like the US encourages and sponsors torture, kidnapping and has a total disregard for international laws it’s no surprise they don’t have many fans around the globe.
    (Have you heard of Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, Extraordinary rendition or Waterboarding?)
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 982640.ece

    Were you aware that it took years of legal wrangling to have the fire-fighters communication recording from that day released as they consistently made references about explosions happening within the building?

    Isn’t it also strange the debris was immediately taken away under armed escorts and destroyed - bearing in mind this was a crime a scene on a magnitude never witnessed before?

    Only reason that these trials are taking place at all is down due international condemnation for its illegal camps and detention centres that popped up like poisoned mushrooms.
    (All US troops were immune from prosecution (NATO Approved) until the photos of Abu Ghraib came to light)
    Ironic that a nation that prided itself on being founded of freedom and liberty regards itself above and beyond the law of every land.

    The number of deaths wasn’t that numerous in the grand scheme of things as more die through famines, natural disasters, collateral damage (Iraq & Pakistan) and good old fashioned gun crime but I'm digressing.

    The US has a fine and impressive history of interfering with countries politics by sponsoring ‘freedom by force’ groups over the past 5 decades and one could argue that it’s now reaping what it has sown!

    Lest not forget the IRA was bankrolled by misguided Americans for decades which undoubtedly resulted in the premature deaths of many British soldiers!

    Land of the free and brave my arse.

    Have a nice day


    PS. Can I suggest a Google video for Loose Change?
    Below is a short film about World Trade Centre building 7 that collapsed at free fall speed and was being reported up to 20 minutes before it actually happened.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5864an4_w6Q[/youtube]
     
  8. D41

    D41

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    Ah! - The conspiracy theories...what a load of bloody codswallop (is that 'English' enough for you? lol) Afraid I don't believe that any more than I believe the theories about the JFK assassination.

    You did make some interesting points, though.

    Re; US & your "freedom by force" comment - Absolutely...the US has bestowed on itself the role of "the World's Policeman", can't argue with that. And yes the US Gov. DOES interfere with the politics etc. of ANY country that they feel like & for whatever reason...usually "national interests" - maybe they learned that from the UK Gov. (remember the British Empire???)

    Re; the IRA - the IRA no doubt received contributions from IRA sympathizers in the bars & pubs of Chicago, Boston, New York etc. But these have been acknowledged as having amounted to 'token' sums intended more to show moral support than to provide actual serious financial backing.


    I don't think the trials are happening for the reasons you stated - the opposite, more like. Obama is very determined to close the camp at Gitmo, and this is a first step in that direction.


    Thanks, Guvnor - You too! :)
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous

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    I'm not really into the conspiracy theories but I am interested in engineering or structural engineering.
    I know that buildings are over engineered and cannot be brought down from taking a knock at the top floors.
    The jet engines of the aircraft that allegedly hit the pentagon were 6 ton in weight with blades made of titanium that need approx twice the temperature to melt that is achieved by aviation fuel/aluminium.

    The phones calls that were supposedly made from one of the aircraft wasn’t technically possible in 2001 and who calls them mum and says ‘hello mum, it’s your son Joe Bloggs’

    The American funding to the IRA wasn’t via pubs and bars but by Noraid which openly supported the IRA.
    One of the upshots from 9/11 is that Blair backed Bush on his War on Terror © and in return stopped the munitions train from America to the IRA, this in turn led to the fragile peace we have in N.I.

    Yes, I do remember the empire but the difference is that the British are still generally welcomed in the former colonies and the Commonwealth Games it testimonial to this.
    One thing the Brits learnt from the empire days is the waiting game and being in it for the long run but this concept is alien to the American instant bubble gum culture.
    (Look at the mess left behind in Vietnam, Somali along with the current fiasco in Iraq / Afghanistan)

    Let’s briefly brush on friendly fire or blue on blue as its now coined, American forces have a quite a history of killing our troops but refuse to attend the hearings in the UK
    (Can you imagine Brits killing American troops and the MOD refusing to attend them?)

    Over to you :D
     
  10. Rowly

    Rowly

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    This is my full and frank opinion, all murdering scum proved guilty beyond any reasonable doubt should pay with their own lives, I'm afraid liberalism will and has already created a worse society, don't believe it? then you're not living on the same planet
     
  11. jimjam39

    jimjam39

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    Im sorry, but you clearly are into them.

    I totally agree
     
  12. Edski675

    Edski675 Administrator Staff Member

    And how many famous miscarriages of justice do you remember over the last 20 - 30 years? My 'favourite' is Sally Clark, maybe because she was a solicitor - like me. The so -called expert evidence turned out not to be quite so expert after all. Convicted of murdering two children, she would have been sentenced to swing.

    There are so many others. Stefan Kiszko (I think that was his name) - another.

    The problem is that the whole system relies on people - and I have yet to find any person who is infallible.

    And even if they were, I simply do not agree with you overseas when you say that some people deserve it. I totally disagree. My opinion is that no matter what they have done, nobody deserves to die.
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous

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    Accepted

    Sorry, shouldn’t selective quote hey :lol:

    Seriously though, objectively looking/reading about the events on 9/11 I find that some of them defy basic physics.
    Planes don’t vaporise on impact, soft skinned aircraft cannot punch holes through multiple layers of concrete and buildings do not fall into their own footprint. (Building 7 wasn’t even hit but it fell)
    (Remember the concord crash, wreckage everywhere and it was full of fuel)

    You know the saying that truth is stranger than fiction?
    Google Operation Northwoods as that will give you an example how something unthinkable went all the way to the White House.
     
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous

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    It’s a noble ideology and I respect you for it as that’s the beauty of mankind is the diversity of opinions.

    My emotions get stirred when the weak of society are harmed (Kids/elderly) and no matter how I try to come to terms with their crimes, I believe that everyone knows a basic form of right from wrong. (The Moors murders come to mind)
     
  15. Rowly

    Rowly

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    Regrettably people have been wrongly convicted of crimes they did not commit and so there must be safe guards in force or a time scale where new evidence that comes to light can be produced, I believe that the American justice system allows this where people are on death row, but where there is 100% certainty of a crime of murder or confession then it is my opinion they should pay the ultimate price.
    It is my belief that the fabric of society is breaking down and tougher laws and sentencing should be introduced to stem the tide of anarchy that is growing in this country, total lack of respect and discipline are at an all time high even children as young as 10 are committing serious crimes and as a society we must take responsibility for this, more and more teenagers are carrying knives and are willing to use them and have done especially in our deprived inner city areas where gangs of lawless thugs don't think twice about sticking it in anyone that dares to even look at them, this is not the Britain I want my children or my childrens children to grow up, I'm afraid my conscience is clear and stand by my opinion, and respect yours.
     

  16. +1 mate
     
  17. D41

    D41

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    Judging by the post you started your thread with, you most certainly are. Your subsequent posts only reaffirm this.

    The plane that hit the Pentagon hit the building on the lower floors causing the ones above it to collapse, The Pentagon has only 5 stories (above ground level) and a passenger aircraft like the 757 has a tail height of well over 40 feet - bearing in mind that 1 story is typically between 10-12 feet in height the resulting math is rather simple to calculate. Er...don't quite know what 'melting titanium' has to do with anything - if you're referring to the collapse of the WTC, then the twin towers WERE designed to withstand the impact of a 60's era (& considerably smaller) passenger jet. It was not the impact of the planes that caused the towers to collapse, it was the resulting fires that melted the steel inner structures of each tower.

    They've had phones on planes for 20 years, mate - No-one by the name of Joe Bloggs was killed in the 9/11 attacks. ;)

    Where do you think Noraid did it's fund-raising - through sponsored walks & gymkhana's? - an ad in the New York Times, perhaps??? Or maybe they just 'passed the hat' in the local Irish bar where the average Irishman liked to sit & drink with his fellow ex-pats - nah!...that's ridiculous!!

    Agree with you on those two points.
     
  18. +2
     
  19. Rowly

    Rowly

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    What brought the WTC TT down were murdering fooking terrorists who have a sick and perverse ideology hell bent on stopping the freedom we all enjoy in the western world, period!!!!! :twisted:
     
  20. Hmmmm ... sorry but in my opinion the death penalty is the soft option for these people. I would be willing for some of my taxes to contribute to make murderers suffer in pain for the rest of their lives.
     

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