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Big Brother is Watching

Discussion in 'General' started by SV_Justin, Feb 20, 2009.

  1. SV_Justin


    Thread Starter

    Location: Kent
    ‘Motorcycle detection system’ on roads by Easter
    By Steve Farrell
    Politics & the law
    17 February 2009 11:53


    A new surveillance system designed to track movements of motorcyclists on the roads will be operational by Easter, MCN can reveal.

    The technology can tell motorcycles apart from other vehicles, measure their speeds and will be able to read number plates under plans. Data such as the routes taken by individual motorcyclists along with time and date will be collected and kept even if they have committed no offence.

    The £100,000 project has prompted civil rights groups to express grave concerns about the potential for invasion of motorcyclists’ privacy.

    Speed camera bossed behind the scheme have named it the ‘motorcycle data project’ and the equipment a ‘motorcycle detection system’.

    It will scrutinise movements of motorcyclists in particular and be switched on to coincide with the start of the riding season in April, they say.

    The new surveillance system has been installed on eight routes in Derbyshire by the region’s speed camera partnership, including the popular Cat & Fiddle run on the A54 and A537 near Buxton.

    Under-road sensors already in place will distinguish motorcycles from other vehicles by their weight and width. Speed will be measured by timing their progress between two sensors a short distance apart. The system has been designed to work alongside Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) and video cameras.

    A spokeswoman for the scheme said knowing where riders were from would allow road safety ads to target key areas, for example through local newspapers.

    But Isabella Sankey, Director of Policy for the civil rights group Liberty, said: “The road to massive-scale real-time surveillance is paved with good intentions. We understand the safety issues involved but it rings alarm bells that this information may be used for targeted advertising campaigns.

    "We have no problem with ANPR being used to locate vehicles whose owners the police firmly suspect of having committed an offence but it shouldn't be used as a tool of mass surveillance.”

    The Derby and Derbyshire Road Safety Partnership said the aim was to “gather intelligence” to “prevent motorcycle casualties” through measures such as speed warning signs, extra police patrols and safer roadside barriers.

    Partnership manager Robert Hill said he hoped to add ANPR cameras in order to work out “how these vehicles are travelling around”.

    He said there were no plans to use the data for enforcement but admitted it could be used as evidence. “If the police are aware that it’s there then they would want to look at it and then obviously there are issues about whether they would want to use it as evidence,” he added.

    Hill said the eight routes had been chosen to target motorcyclists. “The data will be collected on all vehicles equally on those routes. However in terms of the analysis of that data we’re going to pay particular attention to motorcycles,” he said.

    “That’s why they’re on those routes. We haven’t got a traffic management issue on those routes with any other vehicles that we’re aware of.

    "Why they’ve gone there is because we know there’s a casualty problem with motorcycles on those routes.

    “There will be concerns about data collection but ultimately the data we are collecting on this project is around casualty reduction.”

    The system has been installed on the:
    • A5012 from Cromford to Ivonbrook Quarry
    • A621 from Baslow to Owler Bar
    • A57 Snake Pass from Glossop outskirts to Nether North Grain
    • B5035 from Ashbourne outskirts to Wirksworth
    • A515 from Ashbourne to Alsop-en-le-Dale
    • A6 Matlock Bath from High Peak Junction to Artist’s Corner
    • A54 and A537 Cat & Fiddle run from Buxton to Cat & Fiddle pub
    • A5004 Long Hill from Buxton to Fernilee

    Maps of all eight routes can be found in a ‘Bikers’ Guide’ printed by the council. Download it here.

    MCN first revealed plans for the new surveillance technology last year when a notice appeared in the Official Journal of the European Union inviting technology firms to bid for a contract to provide ‘automatic motorcycle detection equipment and associated services’.

    That notice made clear it should be possible for video cameras to be added. It said: ‘The Contract is for the supply of equipment and services in order to accurately detect motorcycles and to facilitate the automatic operation of Variable Message Signs (VMS), Video Data Capture (VDC) and a further potential option of Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR). A fundamental part of this project is the accurate detection of motorcyclists and the user defined triggering of VMS, VDC and ANPR.’
  2. id say it was a good idea in principal, anything that reduces the number of bike casualties gets my vote, but unfortunately thats not what the system will be used for, theyll use it to track average speeds over a greater distance, therefor giving them more chance of nicking us for speeding...they just dont have the balls to call it what we all know it is.....revenue collection
  3. bladebiker


    Location: Sheffield
    I use everyone of those routes in the summer. I hope I don't have to start off roading - this is is all about nicking bikers ultimately. I suppose it's too much to hope theyt use it to locate diesel spills, sh*t left on the road by farmers, people on mobile phones or tailgating car drivers.
  4. Rowly


    With the current state of the nations finances expect many more of these
    devices to pop up anywhere soon to rake in more of our cash in fines.
    That is if you get caught :roll:
  5. Stu


    Location: Leeds
    Just take your number plate off and the system is useless. :D
  6. Rowly


    Great in theory Stu but with the ever increasing trend to remove bits from
    our beloved machines that we have to carry round whilst riding such as
    removable baffles,dark visors and now number plates we may as well
    fit panniers to store all those bits in :shock: :shock: :eek: :eek: :lol: :lol:
  7. SV_Justin


    Thread Starter

    Location: Kent
    who bothers carrying their baffles with them? I took them out before I even fitted my exhaust, and that was 2 years ago, I have no idea where they are now. And just to make sure my exhaust was loud enough, I chopped it in half took all the cladding out and put a bigger end cap on. FCUK YOU TRAFFIC COPS!
  8. The thing is with a load exhaust is you can't take a picture of it,it's easy to collect revenue a camera, as I found out last summer :x :x :cry: :!: Just for ever ones information Devon & Cornwall 'that operation Vortex (their anti-speeding campaign last summer) had been such a success that they will be running it again next summer' You have been warned :!: With a load exhaust you can allows find a sympathetic MOT tester or change it for the MOT. I don't think the modern copper likes having to pull us over & having a little chat :!: :!: :!: The robots are taking over the world :lol: :lol: :!:
  9. all this brainpower and technology is really impressive and the best use they can put it to is stopping bikers having some fun at the weekends, it's about time they got their heads outta their a**es and caught some real criminals. no wonder people lose respect for them......to***rs
  10. I drove down the route A54 and A537 Cat & Fiddle run from Buxton to Cat & Fiddle pub yesterday on the way back from a Christening and saw no evidence of cameras, road works or anything else like that. I think the story might be a load of MCN doom and gloom such as you get this time of year.
  11. Edski675

    Edski675 Administrator Staff Member

    Cobblers. Even if it is true it's another reason to avoid the Peak District. I mean, who really likes:

    1. Crowded and narrow roads - and overrated ones at that. When I rode the Cat & Fiddle road I was so underwhelmed
    2. 30mph limits in ribbon villages that go on for ever with shitty houses with unsuitable upvc windows that should have been demolished years ago
    3. 50mph limits where there is no reason for them other than to spoil the fun
    4. Dry stone walls to crash into if you misjudge a corner
    5. Plod all over

    ...when you can come to Shropshire and have the best fun ever on two wheels, no stupid cameras, no dry stone walls, no endless boring stone villages, just wide open roads mainly NSL? :D
  12. Rowly


    The B1257 Stokesley to Helmsley the best scenery through Bilsdale at
    the edge of the North York Moors, those that know it will second that,
    There are no fixed cameras, well not yet,but there are plod about mainly
    at the weekend in the season but that inconvenience is worth the ride
    through this part of Yorkshire :) :)
  13. Edski675

    Edski675 Administrator Staff Member

    I don't know the B1257. I would vote for the A488 from Shrewsbury to Knighton (Powys) and on to the Cross Gates cafe (junction of A44 and A483) near Rhayader. Brilliant ride, no cameras, no plod, just fantastic bends and fabulous views :D
  14. Jap_Sti_3


    Location: Rochdale
    Well I'm gutted, Being a Derbyshire Lad I've rode every inch of village, drystone wall and back road in the cuny. Visited Matlock bathh every Sunday for 17 years till i went away (army in Germany not nick) and I loved it. Coming back to biking after a couple of years off I see what everyone means but i could still take us all on a blast and not see a camera. Sorry Edski675 but there would be loads of Drystone walls but they just keep you on yer toes...................

    Lets get some meets set up and get these roads viewed, I'd be up for a Shrewsbury Blast out and a North Yorkshire run, I's also be glad to get a trip together to do the Lake District Run.

    Come on put your money where your mouth is and "Lets Get This Party Started" ;) :D :lol:
  15. Edski675

    Edski675 Administrator Staff Member

    OK Jap Sti - no problemo. I am actually organising 2 rideouts as we speak.

    First off - trip to Barmouth on Saturday 4 April leaving Telford Services (M54, J4) at 9.30am, picking up at Shrewsbury Services at 10am, going on via Ellesmere, Ruabon, Llangollen, the Ponderosa, Bala, and Dolgellau to Barmouth, back via Dolgellau (can't avoid this, there's only one road back), Meifod (fabulous bends) and Guilsfield to Shrewsbury. It's been on the .org a while - so far we have about 40 bikes.

    Here's a linky:


    Second - I did a rideout last year called 'Marches Meander' - we set off from Shrewsbury, down the A49 to Craven Arms, up through Corvedale (B4368 from memory) to Bridgnorth and the bike cafe at Quatt, back down the B4364 to Ludlow, on to Leominster for lunch at the OK Diner, along the fantastic A44 to the Cross Gates, and back on the A488 via Kinghton, Clun and Bishops Castle. I'm planning a rerun, haven't firmed up on the date yet but it will be mid to late May as south Shropshire looks so pretty with all the oilseed and flax in bloom.

    The route from last time was:


    Only this time we'll do it in reverse, ie go down the A488 as this is the longest part at about 50 miles. It really is a fantastic road, and the A44 - well just look at the map, says it all really. If you want to practice high speed bends, this is the road for you. The roads through Corvedale - well, really nice, the B4364 is a bit tight and technical but the B4368 is a gem :D The A49 back - well OK as far as trunk roads go, single carriageway, a few nice sweeping bends.

    Date TBA but will be a Saturday in mid to late May, avoiding school bank holiday as it will be a nightmare with traffic and caravans :roll:

    If anyone wants to come but can't make the dates, just shout out, we can do summat else ;) , I don't need much encouragement :D

  16. Jap_Sti_3


    Location: Rochdale
    4th April............. Spot On I will be there, bit of a treck down to your but will most probably find a pub and do an over night stay. :D

    Nise one Eds. Looking forward to it. It will give me a bit of practice before my trip to Croatia at the end of the month. ;)
  17. Edski675

    Edski675 Administrator Staff Member

    Am an hour south of Warrington down the A49 if that helps. Or, if you'd like to be in Shrewsbury, you could kip in my old office which is in the town centre. There must be some advantage to still having the bloody lease that I can't get shot of... There might be one or two others dossing down in there, only downside is - there's no shower. Is a bog and a sink, and the office has some old files and furniture in it, but plenty of floorspace. Also as it's town centre there's nowhere to park the bike but if you wanted to stop over, I'd ask my town-centre-resident mate Charlie and I'm sure he'd let you park up round the back of his where nobody would ever know it was there.
  18. Jap_Sti_3


    Location: Rochdale
    Thanks for the offer Eds.

    Will come back to you on it nearer the time ;)
  19. Great!!! I drive down Snake Pass about once a week for work and was looking forward to being able to do it on the bike in Summer!

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