Decided to do a bit of a write up so its all in one place and an easier read for anyone interested and trouble shooting. Back in January I decided instead of buying a new bike I'd upgrade the Daytona, the original plan was to fit a lower mileage 675 engine into the bike but that changed after talking with Tony Scott and it was decided to attempt to fit and get a 765 working. The reason behind this was any engine going in from the 675 era would be just as old and a lack of history on the engine, issues it may have had, plus it would no doubt require a complete refresh just to be sure Fast forward quite a number of months and a lot of various issues. This was the bike shortly after the new engine was fitted, as you can sit it bolts straight in, the sump was modified and changed so that the exhaust could continue its route down the right hand side and I'd get to keep the undertail exhaust A number of sensors have to be changed at this point, the speed sensor on the gen 2 isn't attached to the ABS system like on newer models, but luckily triumph left and blanked off where it sits on the 765 engine, uncover and plug the sensor from the 675 engine in, same goes for the gear position sensor from the gen 2, the ECU won't pick up or understand the 765 sensor but its a straight swap and means you just plug it back into the 675 harness The next headache comes with the fuel tank, due to the 765 engine having a redesigned crankcase breather ontop of it the tank won't lower like it did before and this will need to be adjusted, you can clock the fuel pump a bit but the end result is that the tank needs to be lowered vertically to clear the crankcase so that it doesn't catch. Another issue with this little tweak is that clearance under the tank is rather tight, so being very careful at this point to not kink any hoses or the fuel line. The bike did start with the older map but obviously a full dyno to get it fuelling correctly and the ignition timings correct will be needed. Now onto the various issues that have appeared..... First up was the intermittent starting, the bike will crank then fire or just not fire, other times it will fire straight up without so much as an issue. To begin with it would start easily when cold but then struggle when hot. Things that were noted at this point was it could be a vacuum issue, so a tiny pinprick of a hole was drilled through the petrol cap, this helped but didn't quite cure the issue completely. Another upgrade was to fit 'pudding cables' from the battery to the starter, you can find these online with a little search over on other triumph forums, a guy over there custom makes thicker cables to run from the battery to the solenoid and on to the starter, the result is the bike will crank faster. Again, this did help but didn't quite fix the starting completely. The final piece which seemed to correct the issue was to make sure the TPS sensor and stepper are correctly adjusted and within spec. On mine the throttle bodies have a manual idle so they are missing the pre-set from factory idle screw, but the TPS was setup along with the stepper motor and the bike was starting when cold and hot, but again it can start up fine or it'll decide it wants to crank a bit before it does anything. The battery was also seen as a potential issue, the OEM battery while ok doesn't have a massively high CCA, as it turns out the same brand Yuasa had kept the size of the YTZ14S batttery the same as the OEM one, so this will fit and results in a battery with higher AH and a higher CCA but its not light and space under the seat means there isn't much wiggle room. I decided to go one step further and fitted a NOCO lithium battery which has an even higher CCA, the spec sheet says 500CCA, its also a lot lighter and smaller which means space under the seat is regained, charges faster and seems to be better suited to what the bike needs, it doesn't have any fancy bits that need extra power it just needs to crank and fire the bike up. This was the bike after getting it back so that I can start to test ride it and see if it has any other issues. The starting issue remains to a degree, and I noted that when rolling the throttle off the idle will drop to a point where it will stall, the lack of an idle screw means it doesn't stop, so I had to turn in the manual idle to create a new 'zero' point. This of course has thrown up the need to tweak the TPS sensor and stepper motor due to them reading differently to how they were set from the garage. The spec sheet says TPS voltage should read .60 give or take .02, mine reads .64 atm, the stepper motor reads .75 though when it goes through the motions. So that may not cause an issue but the mere fact I've adjusted the TPS by ways of a manual idle it will need to have the adaption reset so it can 'learn' what it needs to do at idle better. What I've done is try to set the manual so it doesn't drop below 1200-1250rpm as after two fairly successful rides the bike decided to stall when pulling in the clutch while riding. I suspect this is due to myself having adjusted the manual idle which has caused the above mentioned sensors to not understand what they should be doing. I did try to reset the adaptions but it didn't quite work after the 12-15min idle, it doesn't stutter massively at 5k rpm but there is an ever so slightly tiny flicker of a stutter. But the 2k 'hunting' stutter it had before with the old engine is completely gone so that's a bonus. Another thing to note is that while hooked up to tuneecu on my phone I noted that the throttle bodies aren't quite in sync, this could also be adding to the starting/stalling issues if its not set up perfectly with the TPS and stepper. I'll welcome any questions and answer them if I can but I am looking for ideas and brain picking on what could be causing the starting issues and stalling when I engage the clutch, but this is random as it doesn't do it every time. but I will add that while running and at speed the bike goes like a dream, it pulls hard and seems to have no issues in that department.
What was needed 765 Engine - Mine is from the 2020/22 675 Electronics - Harness, dash, ECU from a gen 2, not sure if a gen 1 will work 675 Throttle bodies and cables 675 Airbox 675 Radiator but plug the RHS outlet or better have it removed and welded for neatness Sump change to allow exhaust to keep the same route Various sensors swapped from 675 engine onto 765 Fuel pump modified to deal with clearance issues Extra tweaks but maybe not needed 'Pudding cables' added to aid with starting issues Pinprick hole drilled in aftermarket petrol cap to correct vacuum issue in tank Lithium battery to add extra cranking power vs the older battery What wasn't expected Wiring harness was replaced due to age related plugs not being in good condition and general age problems Mounting adapters on frame changed due to age and condition Various other TLC was done at this point to put the bike back into a condition fit for the new 765 engine So bare in mind that the condition of the 675 bike could cause headaches before you can put the 765 engine in. Current Issues to look into Intermittent starting issues and stalling when pulling in clutch, but not all the time (Has only happened when under load when riding while changing gear. Not sure why or how as I attempted to make it happen by loading the bike up with speed then pulling and holding the clutch in to 'coast' and it wouldn't cut out again) - Solved to fix stalling but starting issues remain Manual idle setup to work with stepper motor and TPS - Solved Reset adaption and make sure it accepts via TuneECU - Solved Throttle bodies need to be look into and tweaked to be in sync - Solved Current Issues solved and how they were fixed Throttle bodies were out of sync and troubleshooting them found that all three rubber inlet boots were split with one having a split completely though the rubber. All three were replaced with new bolts and then balanced Possible fixes to look at Change the electronics to the 3rd gen 675 as this gen of Daytona was more similar to the incoming 765 engine and may provide a better setup. The other option is to go one step further and fit them from the 765. This leads to the various issues of needing to get the ECU, harness and dash from those bikes along with the ignition and coding of any keys, the gen 2 doesn't have a coded key. Would rather not take this route if it can be helped because the other issue with using those gen electronics is getting it to fit due to the different layout on those bikes and that could require a heavily modified harness and turning off or being able to disable various systems like the ABS, traction control etc
Update on the build for anyone reading. The bike was and is still having intermittent starting issues though I am trying to narrow such issues down, since the bike has a new engine and sensors are what have come over from the old engine this is where I am focusing my attention. I did notice with the bike running that the throttle bodies were out of balance by quite a bit as you can see. While attempting to balance them I found that I could barely get them anywhere close to each other in the numbers. The end result was I took the throttle bodies off and inspected the rubber inlets they go into. What I found was two of them had splits in the rear and side, but hadn't gone through, the third however was showing quite a bad split all the way through, this of course would affect and make it impossible to balance. Replaced all three and was then able to get the throttle bodies to balance completely This was then followed by the bike going back to cranking loads and not wanting to start again when hot, while cold not so much an issue but when warm/hot the bike will crank and not start. With the tank up I spotted the new plug that connects the stator to regulator direct had a wire coming out, out of the six wires going in, one of them was loose and would come up with minimal effort, I decided the best course of action would be to remove the plug and connect the wires directly using crimp connectors, followed by shrink wrap tubing to cover the join. I then tested the battery once I started the bike and it was reading 14.4 volts which is up from the below 14 it was showing before and even at one point dropping as low as 13.5, under load the battery showed no dips in voltage so I feel this issue has been corrected. I had also changed the speed sensor as it was from the old engine and I believe it was faulty, once the bike was run up to temperature the bike was turned on and after a short while I turned it back on and it fired up first time, it did this a number of times in a row which is a vast improvement over what it was doing. While running I could hear what I suspect was blowing at the headers, since I have an exhaust system that has no gaskets and comes apart in various sections I think that not enough sealant was used when putting it all back together, this is on the list of things to do once the bits arrive. Also while running and with the temperature up the oil light started to flicker on and off quite quickly, being a new engine and new pump I don't think any of those parts are at fault and since I had an issue with the light coming on at low idle on the old engine I believe the oil pressure sensor was faulty so this will be replaced with a brand new unit once it arrives.
Little extra update This one is more aimed at the TPS sensor and the idle stepper motor, adjusting them and getting them set up is only annoying in needing to take the throttle bodies off to get at the TPS sensor. What I did spot when taking it apart and the manual doesn't actually specify which way round it goes, but on the lower part of the stepper motor arm is a small rubber triangle, it was set into the position where the point sits between the metal plate that moves up and down to adjust the idle. However on mine it wasn't moving the plate as well or at all, causing it to stall and get stuck in place and the plate could actually be moved if I applied pressure with my fingers. To correct this I rotated the rubber triangle 90 degrees so the point sits fully under the metal plate, the end result was the arm now moves the plate in a smoother manner which on the computer shows the voltage moving without stutter
Bit more of an update on the bike With all the issues above the bike seems to have been behaving quite nicely so far. It still has starting issues but they've switched from being warm/hot start issues and only when cold which is quite odd, but once the bike fires up its away and running nicely. I changed the petrol cap to a newer lightech design, quick release and without the pinhole in it, blew compressed air down the vent holes on the tank and none of them are blocked so I think I've solved that issue and not having a pinhole is a bit nicer. Had to tweak the brakes a bit more because I wasn't too happy with them after the rebuild, mainly replaced the brake lines with new banjo bolts because the old ones are like most things on the bike quite old and in need of a bit of an upgrade to a newer one. Had a slight issue with the quickshifter which is the one that plugs into the coils, took that all off and noted that one of the coils wasn't fully pressed down, no idea how that happened but pushed it back into place and fitted a quickshifter than plugs into the loom and no issues at all, have ordered some longer thread rods so I can move the pegs back a bit as currently they're quite far forward, not uncomfortable but would be nice to have a bit more adjustment to them. Future plans I am planning to replace the rear wheel adjuster blocks and go back to the standard designs, I'd love to get my hands on the lightech ones but they are so stupidly rare it's not even worth looking.
Blimey,impressive Stephen. My Gen 3 Daytona/765 build was a lot easier as its for track use only so somewhat simpler. After Lots of electronic headaches I spent more money than planned on a race ecu/harness and took the bike to John Ewles (great guy) at track electronics to set it up.Don’t think I could have done what you have.Big respect fella.
Thanks mate, its certainly not been an easy build even at the hands of Tony and the guys, but with wanting to keep it as a road bike it opens up an extra can of worms in needing all those electrics to continue working instead of binning them off. I've been working hard myself on the build once it came back, testing various bits as I've listed above and the bike the last time it was ran and tested fired up fine and started again when hot, so I really hope with crossed fingers that its heading in the right direction and soon I'll have a very one of a kind bike build to ride around on
Bit more of an update on the bike, its running nicely once its warm as it has done since getting it back, still has a slight issue from the cold start though. Few things I have corrected are swapping out the copper washers for the dowty ones, I like being a tart and these just seal those banjo's on the brakes really nicely. One thing I did notice was the brakelines on mine being race setup would get stuck on the suspension and block me from moving the lever much into a more natural position, now with the throttle housing getting in the way I was going to undo it and rotate them a bit so I could move the brake lever, the bolts are pants and because I can't be bothered to get them undone I put a little rag on the housing and lightly tapped with a hammer, the housing itself isn't held in place by a guide pin so it'll go with a gentle tap, rotated into a better position with both of them One more thing I found was the clutch lever didn't have much more adjustment left on the cable, so I swapped it out for a new one which according to the AS3 website is for the 2013 Daytona, no idea if that's made any difference to length but there is tons of thread now. But what I did find when I changed to the ASV levers was at times I'd get what felt like a 'click' when pulling the lever, it wouldn't happen all the time so it was hard to pin down, what I think has happened is I'd done the locknut on the bottom a bit too tight, I've undone it slightly, greased up the pivot pin too for good measure and it hasn't done it since. I have managed to get my hands on the twinlight driver which gives a reduced power to the high beam and this gives the look of having both on at the same time. I haven't had time to look at the angel eyes with all that wiring and correct it but I do miss not having twin headlights so this will do that job nicely for the time being. I have also managed to get my hands on a set of lightech chain adjusters, I've got a little plan in mind with these but wont' say too much right now on that.
